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It doesn't matter if someone is 25 or 45, the proof is in the pudding. And yes, social media as an industry is new and by no means do people need to show years and years of experience doing social programs. But they do need to have business savvy and some sort of business planning and execution experience. It's the same standard quality that I would look for in a traditional PR consultant.
I don't think you were focusing on my rant for a lot of your rant, however, because a lot of it doesn't apply. And like I said, I made no comment about age. Nor am I a consultant. Nor am I an expert. I'm a blogger, I learn from the experiences of others, and I have a full-time gig in network security in which social media is a small, integrated part of my job. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Someone asked where I got off requiring consultants to prove themselves. As an internal decision maker with a budget to hire or fire agencies or consultants, I think I am the key person that wants to see proven metrics or experience. It's my dollars that could fund or deplete a consultant. I'm the target audience. So why wouldn't I want to see proof? And every consultant, unless they are brimming with clients, always wants more clients. So shouldn't they put their wares out for everyone to see? And if they don't, well, why not? Something is amiss.
For the record, I have a bit of an intellectual crush on you, too. Even more so after this post. Nothing is better than an intellect who speaks his mind, and whether or not I agree is irrelevant. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
You're right, and I apologize if I mis-characterized your comments. I do, however, think that even with the "consultants" the ultimate proof is to the delivery or execution of what the client wants. You're absolutely the target audience for these folks and you have every right to demand they share their credentials with you. I think the notion of inviting them to do it publicly on Brian's site just rubbed me wrong, along with the videos, etc., etc.
One thing I didn't say that crossed my mind was that by simply answering your call to action and posting credentials on PR 2.0, consultants were, in a sense, admitting some fear or guilt that they may not be qualified or being over-defensive of their qualifications. Not sure that makes much sense after having written it, but I wanted to jump in and say something, but then thought, "Hell, that just makes me look defensive about my own abilities."
I wasn't focusing on you or your rant for much of what I wrote. The big thing that bothers me is the ad agency side folks who create videos like the one feature above and laugh at all social media consultants, professionals, etc., like we're some sort of temporary side show and the print ad will once again be relevant. I've spend the better part of three years patiently tolerating their attitudes, trying to illustrate nicely that they're making fun of people like me to their own peril and it all just blew up in what I wrote.
I stand behind what I said, though. Calling people out as a client working with potential consultants is one thing. Asking them to defend (or embarrass) themselves on a blog just strikes me as too much. You -- the target audience -- is who needs to know. The rest of the world, not so much.
But then again, I've been wrong before. Heh.
Thank you. A million times, thank you.
I am sure it was not intended by Jennifer, but in the process of trying to call out "snake oil salesmen" it really sort of comes off as a round-a-bout way of accumulating case studies.
Certainly one thing I can without question agree with is that for social media not to become a muddy sea of mumbled ideas is we need to get past the semi obvious 101 nature of how wonderful it is and the glowing but generally useless statistics of unique visitors to facebook and twitter. I get it, that is news and such, but we need to get to more substance and at the end of the day to Jason's point the only way that happens is doing good work for satisfied clients.
Not as if false claims to expertise exists only in social media business/consulting/pr/marketing.
Just yesterday I met with a large agency and they said "we already do social media and hired some kids to do it for our clients". That is akin to saying we turned our business strategy over to people who have no experience in business never mind strategy development.
The cap in the marketplace is knowledge. The marketplace of "chatter" is confusing a lot of businesses who don't have the time or interest in learning how to do things right and do the right things.
Knowledge distinctions are difficult to demonstrate and embrace when the market is creating ignorance.......sorry I had to say it
These people are using their "skills" to help unaware companies implement a "successful" social media campaign which never works (and these guru's still get the money for their work!). It's not a good thing in my opinion and I would hate to think that we are turning into a blogosphere which views the negative mentions of "social media guru's" as a "waste of time". Ha, give me a break :)
Too often times, I have felt like I had a third eye when discussing social strategies with clients, as the uninformed don't understand why we should be in the space. While at OMMA a few weeks ago, it was nice to validate that I am not crazy, and that some of the ideas we talk about are actually being used not only by me but by some others as well.
This is a very fluid environment we are in, one that will take hold as case studies are built, but one that also gives us more reign than usual in marketing. "Do Good Work" (You and Chris seem to say this often, which I like) is the play here, and anyone that thinks social is easy may want to rethink why they are here.
This is a self-policing role we have, the weak ideas will be tossed as time goes on and the strong will teach the rest of the pack best practices. I learn something new everyday, but that's what we love about the business. As far as experts go, shut up and get back to work is very appropriate, as I find it almost impossible to keep up with the work I have with clients today - much less time to worry about who's who...
Take care and talk soon.
The precedent is when websites slipped into the template world and your high school senior was building sites for small businesses.
If business analysis took up the cause of social media it would be a much different landscape today.
Social media as marketing is a commodity, go ahead, shoe horn it in with that no newsworthy release and some old-time marketing dribble about a client's case study which is likely not applicable to any other situation due to first mover novelty status. But go ahead, try to differentiate yourself by doing something someone else just did. Egads man!
After the silliness, take a step back and realize this is a different way to run a company, not just sell your stuff. See that's hard, that takes persistence, vision, and experience, not a Facebook page and a flip cam.
Jason thanks for the post. Time to get to work...
In all seriousness, I tire of this debate as well. Every argument that goes on in the internets at large today, has been played out on message boards across the country for the last decade...
Swap out arguments over post counts on message boards with the current argument over who is the social media guru-est on-line and you'll catch my drift.
I'm with you Jason, arguing over the internet is lame. It's just that simple.
I have been in the technology business for 20 years. From mainframe , mid range, client serve, web apps, and SaaS. I have helped grow numerous start-ups to market leaders.
To put this social media guru video into perspective, every time there is a shift in technology there are naysayers. I'm not a psychologist but it likely has to do with deep seated feelings of insecurity. It could be mommy issues too. These people are truly ignorant. I was on the leading edge of business applications built on the Web infrastructure. You can only imagine how many people said it wouldn't work.
Social Media is the real thing. Its complicated and needs expert opinions. It is also in need of an integrated software application to help people unlock the mystery and complexities.
Love this. Talk about an echo chamber... "shut up, do good work, you'll live..." great stuff man.
@TomMartin
Thanks for sticking up for us Jason :). I think that age has very little to do with base knowledge (admittedly not where I want to be in terms of massive brand management and strategy, but feel I am well on my way. I read enough damn blogs after all.)
I was confused because, as Jason says in his short video, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. That is, I didn't realize people were going around calling themselves experts, gurus, etc. But even if they are, so what? And where does Jennifer Leggio get off asking all of them/us to justify our existence by posting case studies in the comments? The whole thing struck me as another ad hominem attack on a nascent industry. And who made the PR 2.0 blog the arbiter of all things social media related?
I was angry because of the chutzpah exhibited in the tone of the post as well as for the same reasons Jason points out: posts like this hurt ALL of us, not just those who might be BS-ing people to get clients. Look, it's a new business and business model. When I go out there and talk to clients or potential clients, there is a shockingly wide range of knowledge, sophistication and understanding not just about social media, but about the power of the internet in general. I think depending on where you live and work, the industries you might target and the individuals within those industries, you will probably have an analogous experience to mine.
A rising tide lifts all boats, so enough with the criticism of what "the other guys" are doing. Why are you so worried about the other guys? Don't you have enough to do? "Shut up, get back to work" indeed. Jason nails it again.
(Oh, and off the topic for a second: an apostrophe denotes possession. It does NOT indicate the plural form of something. It's "gurus" NOT "guru's.")
"Why do you care what other people think?" as long as these other experiences and records are built is a good way to move forward. Whether you or anyone else is labeled a guru is immaterial.
I'm just glad it's distracted people from attacking every social media book that gets published. They're a dime a dozen and only about 10 of them are worth the read.
Name names. Don't be cowardly.
I agree with them in principle, but not in practice.
The thing is, it is easier for people to feel comfortable with the norm, rather than embrace the unknown. I still joke amongst some folks here that the web is just a fad ;)
One point no one accounts for that pretty much shows that the folks trying to dog pile on the fake experts are just doing it to burnish their own cred: Anyone gullible enough to buy snake oil social media solutions is extremely unlikely to be reading this "inside baseball" bitch-fest.
Excellent conversation going on here! As with everything new, it takes a while for markets to catch up, so there's always space for self-proclamations ("I am an expert") & subjective criticisms ("no, you are not"), false promotions ("I make a lot of noise therefore I am good") & deceptions ("prove it to me because I see nothing good"), etc. However, I do believe that at the end (free) markets will select those who create value from those who do not. Businesses will be hiring the social media professionals who measurably add value to their strategy (and not those who do not). Customers will select the businesses that provide tangible & timely value to them on social media (and not those that do not). Followers will be listening to the social media experts who contribute useful knowledge to the communities (and not those who do not).
In the meantime, I agree with you that there is no value in undermining the importance of social media either by implying that anyone can do it for free or by getting paid to do it and ending up doing it worse than someone who's doing it for free :-)
-Alex
"But it made my client very happy and a career path emerged. Since then, I make my clients happy or I get fired. I don’t give a damn what anyone else thinks of me."
Making the client happy (not the people on the high horses) is all that matters.
I can understand some of the backlash against "gurus" because I think most of them are selling fluf (or themselves) and no real strategies. But the elitist attitude that seems to exist among social media purists is almost hypocritical.
Here's something I posted on Slideshare over a month ago that you'll enjoy...
"An easy way to tell if you're social media idiot"
http://www.slideshare.net/socialmediaidiot/an-e...
So from now on, when people are looking for a social media expert, that has to be me. You guys find your own niche now. : )
I wrote a post about the "guru-fication" of social media a month or so ago, and it wasn't necessarily faulting the experts but the concept...and us. We're the ones that anoint such deities, young and old and in a new medium, where many are unsure and need guidance and reassurance, it's not unusual behavior. As you pointed out, even experienced players feel the need to assign the guru label.
Questioning is healthy but attacking will not help and as you pointed out, can hurt. So perhaps we should challenge ourselves and slowly gain that trust to chart our own course :)
Awesome stuff on your site -- look forward to exploring a bit.
Tim @uMCLE
1. admit that we've all 'spit-shined' our resumes to make oursleves look better
- some more than others; but, nonetheless, we've all done it in one form
or another.
2. look at this 'dogpiling' from a 1000-ft view instead jumping in while the
water's warm.
3. calling out some very smart people in this rant - mad respect for that!
- even got some nice 'shared love' from Jennifer herself on this.
Beyond that, you've brought up some things that have made me a bit aware of the fact that more people look at you when you're not necessarily the squeaky wheel, but the guy who's dependable, confident and savvy enough to know that he doesn't have to jump up and down to get some attention.
If you bring the goods and deliver some quality services, folks will begin to notice.
Keep on Rockin, Jason!
Narciso Tovar
Big Noise Communications
@Narciso17
feedback.
Sadly, these "attacks" have come off as condescending when that probably wasn't the intention.
I've thought along these lines ever since I kept seeing the "how to spot if your social media expert is walking you down the garden path" or "ten ways to spot a fake social media guru/expert" posts everywhere. Enough already. For many of the reasons you've mentioned they do no credit to the social media industry whatsoever. All the whiners do is present like a bunch of spoilt, squabbling children, scared of losing the spotlight.
Once more, social media is still a new game - certainly to our clients. If there was ever a time for enterprising people to "go for it and deliver value," this is it. Everyone has to begin somewhere, and what's paramount is "Are we helping our clients achieve their business goals with this fast-moving media?" It's either yes or no. If we are, we will be a hero or heroine to our clients and that's all that matters.
see you in Las Vegas.
- The people we need to convince are clients and potential clients, not just fellow fishbowlers.
- Results matter.
Perhaps things have changed in the last year - perhaps the market has matured (or maybe even I have), but I think your take adds something to the discussion that makes me pause and consider how I've approached this (I'd add something about having an intellectual crush on you, but that may be a little creepy).
Thanks for making me stop and think again about this.